We are delighted to announce our new Shopify Ecommerce Podcast brought to you by our founder, Keith Matthews.
Each week, Keith will interview folks within the Shopify community. This will range from developers, marketers, merchants and many more professionals earning their living from the world of Shopify.
What's in episode 1?
In episode 1, Keith interviews Mike Potter, the founder of Rewind.io, a popular backup app which is growing in popularity amongst Shopify users.
Mike discusses how he started Rewind.io, the ongoing challenge of backing up data and promoting and building a successful app business in the Shopify ecosystem.
Mike talks about all things Shopify from his office based in Ottawa, Canada.
Enjoy 🎤 👍
About Milk Bottle Labs
Milk Bottle Shopify Ecommerce Podcast
Episode 1: Mike Potter (Rewind) The Backup Guy
[00:00:00] Intro: Welcome to the Milk Bottle Labs Shopify Ecommerce Podcast brought to you by Milk Bottle Labs. Officially Ireland's top rated Shopify Experts. Milk Bottle Labs are loved by Shopify store owners around the world and host the fastest growing Shopify Meetup quarterly in Ireland's capital Dublin. This podcast is supported by rare.io.
[00:00:28] Rare helps Shopify store owners increase their sales with smart and personalised email marketing. Thanks for listening. Now over to your host, Keith Matthews.
[00:00:41] Keith: Hey folks, welcome to the Milk Bottle Labs Shopify Ecommerce Podcast. Each week we discuss all things Shopify, so whether you're a Shopify merchant, a Shopify developer, a Shopify partner or a Shopify expert, or simply fascinated by Shopify, just like me it is the podcast for you this week. I am delighted to be joined by a dear friend of Milk Bottle Labs, Mike Potter. Ottawa based Mike is the founder of our favourite Shopify app Rewind and the app Replay. He's an energetic entrepreneur, he's hiring people and he loves sharing his story. Last year, Mike presented at our largest ever Shopify Meetup in Dublin, and we got a great reaction from his presentation and from the story. And we shared a few pints of Guinness after. So I made sure that, Mike was going to be the first interviewee on episode one of the Milk Bottle Labs Shopify Ecommerce podcast.
[00:01:37] Mike, how are you?
[00:01:40] Mike: Great.
[00:01:41] Keith: Listen, Mike, thanks for joining us. The last time we met actually was in Dublin at our Meetup mid year, and when we met originally, you gave me the history of Rewind and you have an interesting history yourselves. Can you run through how you eventually led up to arriving at Rewind?
[00:02:02] Mike: Yeah, sure. We had a great time there. You know, I started Rewind with my business partner, James known from years ago. I had run a previous startup about five to six years ago. Ended up working with James, my business partner for a bit at another company, and I just emailed him and I said, you know, I'm really want to work with you again and loved what we were doing. And let's see if we can do something. And so we started working on another product. Had nothing to do with Shopify, completely different. We worked on that for about six months, trying to try and give it a good go. Really wasn't working out, you know, there was nobody that was installing it. We couldn't get anybody using it.
[00:02:39] So one day I went up to and I said, you know, what if we did backups? Now I'm a big backup guy. I mean, I don't know about you, but I've lost data, you know, on my work computer, I've lost data at home. And I really, you know, had made a promise to myself now that that's never going to happen.
[00:02:55] So, you know, at home, I back up my backups. I've got two hard drives at home. Those are both mirrored into the cloud so that I don't lose any data. I've lost those important pictures, you know of kids. I've lost important data from my work computer.
[00:03:12] I was doing a presentation one time in Chicago. I used to be a technical evangelist at Adobe, and I was doing a presentation in Chicago and in front of a few hundred people, and my boss and my hard drive crashed there, and I lost that whole entire hard drive. I've had those experiences. I think it seems if you had those you know, the importance of a backup and you know, you really want to make sure that you never go through that again.
[00:03:35] Right cos it really is just a hopeless feeling that you get in a pit of your stomach when you go in and you know, your hard drive doesn't, your computer doesn't boot up or your hard drive doesn't have all the files on the or or what have you.
[00:03:48] Keith: Mike it's interesting that you say that because people that are listening would probably think that when we now live in the world of the cloud.
[00:03:55] The backup isn't required, but, and it's entirely, you know, when you get into the detail of the app, obviously backup is required. When you said you contacted your business partner what year was that? Was that long ago?
[00:04:08] Mike: 2015 we started this three years ago.
[00:04:14] Keith your reactions the same as James’ was, right. I mean, when I told him, I said, I think we should do, apps for Shopify. He said, why would you do that? It's in the cloud, like it's all backed up. That's definitely the assumption that most store owners have.
[00:04:28] Keith: Yeah. It's funny because you know, since you visited us during the year, we put your app in any store that we build as the kind of a default. Initially when we talked to the client, they kind of don't understand why it's required. And then eventually after a very short two minute conversation, they, they understand why it is absolutely required. So that's, that's an, you know, it's the opposite to the way the majority of people that I would think, I suppose the perception is not the reality.
[00:04:53] And so at that time then, did you sit down, you know, I know you told me before, you had experience, or you knew of Shopify? Obviously Shopify started in Ottawa and I, you know, could you just explain how you, I know how, how you ended up choosing Shopify? We just explained the link there with Toby and the Ottawa base you know, you guys are pretty much close to each other.
[00:05:15] Mike: Yeah, exactly. So we're in Ottawa and they're in Ottawa. And you know, to be honest with you, when we first started it, we really just wanted to work for them. I mean, even as the company was growing amazingly well. I mean, it was, it's been, you know, the darling of the Ottawa tech scene for probably the last decade at least, I would say.
[00:05:36] And so, you know, even three years ago, even five years ago, I've, I was trying to figure out how do you get in there? And so, yeah, three years ago I said, why don't we just do Shopify? We can build this product and, you know, maybe we'll build a cool app and they'll, they'll, they'll hire us, you know, they wouldn't get a job there.
[00:05:52] I've always said that the best way to get a job at a companies is to make it right, build it on your own and build something that, that company needs and then, and then make your job, make it, make it happen. And so that was sort of the original intent. We would build the entire application to really mimic their technology stack as much as we knew.
[00:06:14] And so, you know, when they came in and if we would have been able to say, okay, you know, it's built on the same technologies that you guys are using internally. We're familiar with your APIs and yeah, we'd love to work with you and turns out that rather than do that. We've built a pretty successful app with, um, you know, tens of thousands of people who've installed it now. And growing, growing very, very well. We're just about to hit just past 15 people and we'll be 20 people by the end of the year. So we're growing growing nicely, and yeah, we're, we're saving stores and we're helping people recover their data, which is really, honestly the most important thing in my mind.
[00:06:50] Keith: Fantastic. And I think when we met. Which was four or five months ago, I think you were up to 10 people that I remember you telling me that you were going home to confirm some more hires, then that's a great, that's a great story. So Mike, you come up with this idea, you're on startup number three or startup number four, you succeed.
[00:07:07] And how do you sell that app to the store owners? So could you just explain the importance of the Shopify app store and the Shopify ecosystem in all of that?
[00:07:17] Mike: Yeah, because Shopify you know, did an amazing job at building this ecosystem. Like you said, the apps store, the themes ecosystem, their partner program.
[00:07:28] I think they've done an incredible job at driving people to that. So the way that people find Rewind to go to the app store and they do a search for backup and they'll find us, or they'd go to apps.Shopify.com/backup and they'll find us. And. There's a button on that page that says, you know, in get or install in your store.
[00:07:47] I forget what it says now cause they're just redesigned the app store. And so once that, once that, that button is clicked, the store owner is presented with a permissions dialogue. And that permission dialogue details, what exactly Rewind is going to get access to. So, you know, because we're a backup app, we request to get access to all the information in your store, but just as a public service announcement to any app, any store owner that is out there, it's only an app.
[00:08:15] You really want to make sure on that screen that the permissions that the app is looking for make sense? You know what I mean? If you're, if you're looking on that screen when you're installing the app and those permissions you're thinking that, I don't know why that app needs that permission. Give it a second thought and maybe contact the developer and talk to them.
[00:08:32] But you go to the app store, install the app, and then once you've installed the app, the next thing is too, is to select a plan. And the great thing about the Shopify app store is really the way that apps are built. So with Rewind, we build directly onto your Shopify invoice.
[00:08:52] So when you pick a plan, you then an author Rewind to charge your Shopify invoice, anywhere from free up to a couple hundred dollars a month, depending on the size of your store and how well you're doing and, and how many stores you have. And that charge gets added onto your Shopify invoice on a monthly basis.
[00:09:10] And then Shopify in turn pays us. You know, after they've received payment from the customer. So it's a fantastic program. The, our conversion rate, because people don't have to pull up their credit card. We don't have access to their credit card information. You know, the conversion rates are higher. People are more likely to test apps as you know, they trust Shopify that if they uninstalled the app, then they won't be built for the service. There's a, there's a level of trust there that Shopify is built for their store owners that, that we certainly take advantage of by being an app in their app store.
[00:09:44] Keith: Yeah, it's fantastic. And on, in terms of the complexities of installing Rewind or Replay, and we've come across on a regular basis, apps that require some deep coding. So, but yours is, yours is plug and play if I remember correctly.
[00:09:59] Mike: Yeah. We've really, really focused on making both apps. So Rewind for backups and Replay for, you know, copying from one store to another, cloning a store from one store to another. We really try and focus on, on the usability of those apps and making sure that they're as easy to use as possible and as simple for people to use. So with our Rewind app, for instance, there's no, there are literally no options.
[00:10:24] You don't pick when you back up your store, you don't pick what you back up. You don't pick where the backups are stored or anything like that. You know, our philosophy has always been business owners have more important things to do than to worry about a backup and, and configuring that.
[00:10:40] And so we really focused on ease of use and, and making it so that people can get started as quickly as possible and then get back to whatever it was that they were doing to, you know, run their store and grow their sales. So, yeah, we've really tried to make that to a, I'd say a core tenant of any application that we've built, just been as you make it as easy to use as possible.
[00:11:02] These store owners typically are, are busy people. Backups should really not be something that they're worried about or thinking about.
[00:11:09] Keith: And given, given the success of the app and you know, I suppose you can measure apps success a number of ways, you know, in terms of revenue, in terms of number of downloads, in terms of number of monthly subscribers, is there any specific use case which you mark as a success point. Any particular use case where you actually genuinely did save a business, you must come across them on a regular basis through interacting with clients, do you?
[00:11:37] Mike: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, those are the most. You know, those are the ones that we love the best right. Whenever we're able to help a customer. I think the most, you know, we've got some great stories of how we've been able to do that. We've had, I remember one customer whose cat jumped on his keyboard and so seeing and we were able to recover that data, honestly, quite an [00:12:00] easily.
[00:12:00] We had one customer a couple of weeks before Christmas, had an integration with another app, and they deleted all of the products from the store, which you know, you'll sometimes get when there's data that's being sent from one location or one app into another app, you know, so you have an inventory management app or something like that.
[00:12:16] Those are typical sorts of, you know, points that we see where you might want to make sure you've got a backup. And some got other apps that are installed. We, I mean, we've been here in the Shopify ecosystem. We've been here for almost, you know, three and a half years. So we've seen certainly a lot of things, um, that, you know, most people probably wouldn't ever think of, but the majority of the ones that we really like are when we're able to help those customers out.
[00:12:42] Unfortunately, like you, you know, you mentioned at the start and still a lot of people who don't know that they need it, you know? And while Shopify. Yeah, it does have a backup of the entire system in the cloud. They don't let individual store owners Rewind their own data, which is, which is what we do, and that really surprises a lot of people when they, you know, they make a mistake in their store, they accidentally delete something.
[00:13:06] Then they go into the support chat and they ask Shopify and I've just deleted my blog, or my pages or my products or whatever. Can you help me bring them back? And they're told no, and sorry, when that stuff is deleted, it's gone forever. But if you had installed Rewind, you would have been able to recover it.
[00:13:24] I'd say those are the ones that maybe frustrate us the most because those are the ones where we're not able to really show the value of the product and show it working. So the ones where, you know, a customer's installed, that they've been proactive, they've really guarded against making a mistake and were able to prove to them that the product works and it's helped them out.
[00:13:41] Those are really the most satisfying, you know, experiences that we have.
[00:13:46] Keith: Yeah, we've, we've been there, we've experienced that and then, as I say, we installed the store, the app regularly, so we see the positive results. And Mike. When I, read about Rewind and when I hear you, when I see you at presentations or I meet you at Shopify events it's always Rewind that's the conversation, but I'm actually intrigued by the Replay app.
[00:14:08] Is that, is the growth trajectory with that app, is it slower or better than Rewind or are you seeing people to pick that one up as well? So you know that that's the app that basically allows you to clone the store and push products, push pages across two different Shopify store. And is that growing well?
[00:14:26] Mike: Yes, it's really growing. It's growing quite nicely. Actually, you know, one of the first requests we ever got when, when we launched Rewind was, you know, can I rewind from one store and, and back in and Rewind it into another store, back on some one store and Rewind it into another store.
[00:14:41] And we didn't really, when we first started, I guess we weren't really prepared for that use case. We built that feature into the product quite quickly and now we spun it out into its own app. I think we look at, you know. Multi-language stores, multi-currency stores. That's a really good use case for Replay, right?
[00:15:03] So if you had stores that are running multiple currencies for different regions or multiple languages for different reasons, Replay allows you to copy from one store into the other store. You know, you can set it to ignore certain attributes, like the price, for instance. So if you do have two currencies that you're selling in, when you make a change in one store, it won't change the price in another.
[00:15:22] Lot. We've learned a lot on how customers are using that. I know Shopify is building some of that functionality into the product, or at least they've given indications that they're going to build some of that functionality into the product, especially on the plus side, right? Where they're going to add support for multi currencies are going to add support for multiple languages into Shopify Plus. And, and so, you know, we think there's definitely an opportunity for Replay because you know, they're proving that customers want to do that by building it into their, into their feature set. We really Replay functions as a bunch of different ways for us to know. Certainly we'd like to, to help our customers.
[00:16:00] It's also a nice testing ground for us where. It has, you know, quite, it has fewer customers than Rewind does. And so if we have any new Shopify APIs, or if they're changing their system, we can test in Replay first and then we can put that code back into Rewind. So it's not affecting as many customers.
[00:16:18] Yeah. But we've got a few hundred stores that are using Replay for copying from one store to the other, cloning their stores. We've added the ability to do that automatically now. So as you make a change in one store, it's automatically propagated into the other stores, which I know a lot of people are really liking that feature.
[00:16:35] So it's definitely got some good potential. I think Shopify has proven that, you know, that there's demand for it because they're integrating some of those features into the core product. I think the only question for us is, is whether, you know, longterm there's enough of a market outside of plus, you know, Shopify is pushing us quite hard these days roughly.
[00:16:54] So a lot of value there. Is there not some of the market outside of the plus for that app to survive or, or you know, longer term do we see them. I'm sort of absorbing that into the product like they've done for a couple of other apps as well.
[00:17:08] Keith: Yeah. Just just for an listeners, the Shopify Plus is the enterprise version of Shopify.
[00:17:12] So Shopify core is the platform, and that the majority of Shopify users will be on. Shopify Plus is for enterprise. It's got some additional KPIs and some, some enhancements that are, that aren't available to the core. That's actually, that's actually a good point, but I suppose that's really a challenge for most of developers then.
[00:17:30] You know, Mike, which kind of leads me onto my next question. You know that the app store was updated quite recently. I believe there's between, is it, is there between 2500 and 3000 apps now live in the app store?
[00:17:44] Mike: Yeah I think that's about right.
[00:17:45] Keith: So, you know, in the early days when, you know, going back to 2012 / 2013 when we were kind of hovering around shelf fight, you know, we were looking at probably four or 500 apps in the app store.
[00:17:57] Is there a growing trend besides the fact that there's obviously more marketing apps in it within the ecosystem because they help you sell, you know, can you say any trends within the app store or you know, is there an area you like, you've clearly focused on a niche, which is very, very clever, but is there any other trends that you can see besides the obvious ones that that's occurring in the app store?
[00:18:21] Mike: It seems that we're seeing there, there are people out there that are looking to consolidate a bunch of apps together. Right? So you look at bold commerce, for instance, and how successful bold has been in the app store. There are certainly people out there that are looking to replicate bold success and sort of copy their formula as having multiple apps.
[00:18:40] That was certainly a strategy that we thought about when we were first, you know, building Rewind, and then we built Replay and we thought, do we want to focus on building apps for Shopify or what we want to focus on, you know, a, just the backup service and being able to backup any service that exists out there.
[00:18:58] And, you know, we've obviously decided to backup any SaaS service, but there's other people who are now, you know, trying to copy bold, I would say, and acquire some apps. So I think you'll see in the next little while, you'd probably see a bit more consolidation. Some of the apps that had been there for a few years, um, are growing quite large.
[00:19:18] You know, Rewind is certainly one of them, but there are other apps out there that are doing them better than we are. And. I think you'll see that the, as the larger the apps grow, you know, the bigger the barrier there is to somebody coming in and competing in that space. So the market leaders seem to be establishing themselves in the various categories of the app store.
[00:19:40] And I think their position is market leaders is probably going to be cemented in the next you know, 12 months or so, probably. But those are sort of two major things that I've seen going on. I think everyone that I've talked to from an app perspective is really trying to adjust to the new app store in the old one had been out, you know, like you guys, I've mentioned, you know, we've been looking at it since 2012, 2013.
[00:20:04] So it's been around, you know, five to 10 years. I mean, people had a good sense of how it worked and how people discovered apps in the app store and they tailored their, their product descriptions and app store listings to attract as many visitors as possible. And I think Shopify has changed some of those, you know, algorithms behind the scenes and in terms of how they highlight certain apps.
[00:20:29] So I think a lot of people are just getting used to trying to figure out, okay, you know, how do, how do we get seen? How do we get that visibility that, that we used to have and make sure that, you know, we're, we're continuing to grow month over month. And, uh, and so I think, you know, you'll see in the next little while, some people are going to be adjusting their listings and trying to figure out, okay, how do we have to continue to grow sales?
[00:20:49] I've heard from a few developers has been new app stores is initially resulting in fewer downloads and fewer installs. Um, from our perspective, we haven't seen that. But I've talked to a few people that are experiencing that. And then I've seen some people discussing in the Slack groups that. You know, you really need to focus on the sales experience if you're one of these app developers.
[00:21:11] So I think where maybe before you were able to get away with having a, a sales team to follow up on some of the installs and the leads that you were getting because there were just so much business with. With less installs, you really need to make sure that you've got you, that you're a proper company.
[00:21:29] Really, teams is the best way to play it, right? You're following up on the installs from a sales perspective that you're marketing to them, that your support is there in case somebody needs help. You know? All of those aspects can't really be run by a single person. Yeah. You can't have one person that's doing development and reacting to all the API changes that are going on in Shopify and doing marketing and doing support and doing sales.
[00:21:53] You have a need. You need a team of people, and I think that's what we're finding now is the those Apps that are truly, you know, real businesses as opposed to just maybe apps, which they might've been a few years ago. Those real businesses, I think, are starting to rise to the top. And like I said, become, they're the market leaders in the categories.
[00:22:16] Keith: Yeah. That's, that's, that's an interesting takeaway. It's, it's no longer, you know, one man in a bedroom running intercom. It's, you know, you have to, you have to step up to the mark I suppose. So based on what you're, based on, what you're seeing, like really, then we'd probably see some consolidation as well. We'd probably see some app companies joining together and a few players then becoming more dominant.
[00:22:38] Mike: I think so. I think there's always, you know, these, these sort of inflection points, you know, like the app store we designed, for instance, this is a point in time where it allows a developer to reflect on. Do they want to continue with the work that they've done and, and continue to see it? Or do they want to move on to something else? You know, if, if they're not a full time company and they're not building a real business and they're just doing it for themselves, you know, it's a time where they can step back for a second and say, okay, what do I want to do next?
[00:23:14] Is a Shopify app ecosystem still what I want to work on? Or has my passions move to something else? And so I think you get those trigger points, like, you know, when with when that new app store launched and there was work involved in putting up your new app store listing, you know, that's a trigger point.
[00:23:35] That's work that people have to do. And if they're not really committed to it, then it's an opportunity for other people to come in. Purchase those apps, take them over, you know, handle the proper support. So I definitely, I definitely think you're going to see that consolidation, you know, might not be visible and sort of store owners because the apps are still going to be there, but they'll be in the background, there'll be owned by different, by different people.
[00:23:56] And so I definitely see that coming in the next, you know? Yeah. [00:24:00] 12 months or so. For sure.
[00:24:02] Keith: Yeah. It's funny you should say that, and because we're actually seeing the change in the market on this side, on the expert side, on the, you know, the store build side where customers are actually requiring somebody at the end of the phone and then they're also, you know, requiring. But you know, value added services, like, you know, marketing services and you know, automated email services, that kind of thing. So that, you know, there's, it is interesting, I think your dead right, it's now more complicated to run a business even though you're running it on the back of another platform.
[00:24:29] You know, the systems requires the organisation acquired and the manpower required is increasing all the time. So that's a pretty valid point.
[00:24:37] Mike: That's good for store owners, right? I don't know what you would think about that, but. I think that's good for a store owners because it, it sort of takes away the people who, who may not have been as professional as it might not have done as good a job.
[00:24:52] You know, if, if the barrier to entry sort of goes up, you know, like you said, where you're requiring this sort of level of, of professionalism to operate in that ecosystem. Then to me, the, the end winner is the merchant who is now able to work with, you know, professional companies and, and not have to worry so much about the quality of the people that they, that they might be working with or that they might be finding in the experts program or the app store.
[00:25:20] Keith: Yeah, you're right. In fact, it works to, if you're a professional app developer, you're professional experts or you operate you know, a proper ship as they say here. Well, then it actually works to your advantage because once you give the customer the Shopify merchant, uh, I go with experience and you over-deliver.
[00:25:37] Well then in actual fact, it makes the previous developer look. The guy that doesn't answer the phone, it makes him look even worse. So, you know, it does. Yeah, it, it works. It certainly works to our advantage. And I'm assuming that it's the same in the app world. Yeah.
[00:25:51] Mike: Just to the key there, it's, you need to make sure that sort of disruptive do you need to make sure that you're providing, you know, a good service and your quality. You know, the level of quality and the level of merchants that Shopify is getting, I think has grown considerably there you know, some extremely large businesses, very well known brand names that are signing up.
[00:26:10] Um, and that had been signing up for years. But, you know, obviously as it, as you continue to get more of them, more of them on board with, you know, plus in some of the programs that Shopify is delivered, the level of quality that you need to deliver has to rise as well.
[00:26:23] Keith: I think, you know, because also the smaller merchants requires a higher standard. You know, like I spoke to a a jeweller in Dublin this week, and they pointed out Tiffany's site in New York. Now, you know, a small jeweller in Dublin is not going to, you know, get a site with the same functionality as Tiffany’s is.
[00:26:44] But it's quite interesting because that’s the standard that they're aiming for. So, you know, that's a very valid point. And that they are attracting, you know, they're attracting merchants with higher value and they're also attracting merchants with higher standards. And I think you can, for a lower budget, you can deliver, you can send that ever higher standards.
[00:27:03] So I guess that is a good point, Mike, just to finish, you know. Where specifically for yourself, you’ve clearly developed a wonderful app. I mean, I personally gets a great story. I mean, in the space of six months, you've just told me that you hired five, five more people. Where do you see, you know, where do you see Rewind in the next 12 to 18 months?
[00:27:26] Mike: Quite a few plans to grow our business. I think for how we're going to grow this business. Um, you know, one is we already backed up QuickBooks online data and so we're going to look at other services, that Shopify store owners are using online and certain back those up as well. So, you know, MailChimp for instance, seems like a no brainer where there's quite a few stores that are using MailChimp to popular service on its own.
[00:27:49] There's no built in backup functionality and our customers are actually requested that we back up that data as well. So you'll see Rewind, expand out to other platforms. Some of them are already listed on our website, but MailChimp is certainly, I think at the top of our list. You'll see us do that.
[00:28:05] We have, we have access to a considerable amount of data in the backups. And we'd really like to take advantage of of that data and provide additional value and services to customers. Um, so we're looking at other apps that are out there that are, that are doing sort of something similar to Rewind, moving data and moving data out of Shopify.
[00:28:27] You'll see us move into that area for sure. And we've got a couple of other things that we've been working on for quite a long time. You know, we, we'd be able to back to that customer that lost their products just a few weeks before Christmas and had to call us and ask us to Rewind their data.
[00:28:44] We've often thought, you know, why? Why did he have to call us? Like, why did. Why didn't we reach out to him since we were notified by Shopify that his products had been deleted. So we're working on something in that area that we should be releasing, hopefully in early 2019 that [00:29:00] I think is pretty exciting.
[00:29:01] You know, being able to monitor and alert you when there's activity in your store, expanding out to other platforms and leveraging the data that we've got from a backup perspective. So that's hard to, in our short term plans in the next year, where, where we see this going and how we're able to grow this company.
[00:29:19] Keith: That's great. That's great. Well, you know what, Mike, we might loop back maybe in 12 we would probably meet in the meantime, but let's, let's put it in the calendar until the who back on the, on the podcast in the next 12 to 18 months. I'd love to see how much Rewind has grown and how far it's got.
[00:29:36] Mike: Totally.
[00:29:38] Keith: It's nice talking to you today. Thanks for your time.
[00:29:41] Mike:Likewise. Have a great day. Have a great day. Bye. Bye.
[00:29:45] Keith: Thanks for listening to episode one of the Milk Bottle Labs Shopify Ecommerce Podcast . You can check out is the Rewind app on Rewind.io for the Shopify app store.
[00:29:56] Until next time, thanks folks. [00:30:00]