Episode #17: Meet Enda The Shopify Kit Man

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What's in episode 17?

In episode #17 Keith Matthews chats to Enda Regan an Irish based Customer Support Team Lead for Shopify's automation tool - Kit. Enda is an advocate for remote working and a passionate Shopify staff member.

Kit enables busy store owners to automate tasks so they can focus on growing their online sales. So, is a virtual assistant or is it an AI tool? Maybe both?
Enda explains and makes the case why all store owners should consider Shopify Kit.

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Episode 17 Milk Bottle Shopify Ecommerce Podcast with Enda Regan

[00:00:00] Enda: If you have experience to do with Facebook ads yourself, when you see you having a conversation with Kit, it's literally about five messages. That's all it will be. Like a conversation was very, very short. So when this base of five messages that you send to Kit, you can have a Facebook ad up and running and live. Kit will literally do it all.

[00:00:21] VO: Welcome to the Milk Bottle Shopify Ecommerce Podcast brought to you by Milk Bottle Labs, Ireland's top rated Shopify experts, Milk Bottle Labs, build, upgrade, migrate and market Shopify and Shopify Plus stores all over the world. Milk Bottle will migrate you onto Shopify with zero interruption guaranteed, or optimize your Shopify store and maximize store sales. This podcast is kindly supported by our favourite Shopify app and the only app we install in every store. Rewind.io is the leading backup solution for your Shopify store. We'll talk more about Rewind later now over to your host, founder of Milk Bottle Labs Keith Matthews.

[00:01:09] Keith: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Milk Bottle Shopify Ecommerce Podcast. I'm delighted to have a good friend of ours on the line today, Enda Regan, Enda is a customer success lead in Shopify focusing on the product Kit. And he's based in the West of Ireland. So Enda, how are you?

[00:01:25] Enda: I'm absolutely mighty. How was your good self?

[00:01:27] Keith: Not too bad. You're in the West, as they say in Ireland. What part of the West of Ireland are you in?

[00:01:31] Enda: I'm in the bustling metropolis of Boyle that it is. Well, actually I used to be in Boyle but I'm in a little village now about 10 minutes between Boyle and the River Shannon. So it's a very kind of very picturesque little village and really well located between Boyle and Carrick-on-Shannon so it's fantastic.

[00:01:49] Keith: You're in rural Ireland. What's your broadband like?

[00:01:52] Enda: It certainly wouldn't be winning any awards for speed. I'm only getting to be honest about 5 mpeg. But in fairness, I have to admit, it is a very, very solid 5mpeg. So it never actually really drops, which is really good. So like it's just even kind of show on, that's like even if wherever you might be based in the country, even if you're only getting something like 5mpeg, that you're still well able to work with it. Because naturally I'm in meetings every day with my head office, which is based in San Francisco. And then next I'm in meetings with people who are dotted around the Island as well, And naturally, people in Canada as well. So it's absolutely more than adequate to be able to work, which is fantastic. And as I said, as long as it's solid and stable, just doesn't drop, you’re 100% away with it.

[00:02:30] Keith: Yeah, that's good. I think there's sometimes, like worldwide, there's a conversation about broadband and broadband access. Your point is very valid. If you can get a consistent connection, you know it's going to be working at certain areas than it is when you're on your conference calls to San Francisco or Toronto. That's the main thing. I think people, sometimes they're obsessed with capacity and speed. I think consistency is actually more important. Enda you're not the only Shopify employee in the West of Ireland. I've noticed been following you on LinkedIn. There's a number of you guys in that part of the country. So many people have got in Shopify spread around Ireland now?

[00:03:01] Enda: At the minute where we're tipPing 400 at the minute, I'm probably saying 400 at the moment and we're tipPing over it. But the great thing is, is that we are in every county in Ireland, and it's a fantastic way to have it because when Shopify started, like when I joined Shopify, I'm nearly nearly four years in Shopify and so on. When I started, there was a major focus on kind of having Galway be the epicenter of all those Shopify folk within Ireland. But the reason for that, it wasn't that I think corporate or it wasn't any kind of a major business decision. It was simply just a social aspect that as soon as you finish your day's work, that you could literally meet the guys and go for a beer or for a walk or do whatever you got to do, you know? But naturally, then as Shopify grew, we identify the trend that basically, because you can work from home. It makes life easier for people if they actually want to go back to where they are from. Or if cos I can say, especially in my, in my own, in my own case, it made my life 200% easier to move back to Boyle at a time from Galway. So it's just that like when, when we had that flexibility to do so, it was an absolute no brainer. So as I said, we're about 400 at, at all the time, as I said, in every County in Ireland. And the funny thing is between like, you know, people who I know who worked for Shopify are in about a 10 mile radius around me now, it's a minute to be talking. 10 to 12 Shopie folk around was here, like as you saw on LinkedIn. What I do organize as much as possible is workdays. So basically we're Shopify, like you can come together and just work together for a day. So I have done them in Spool Factory in Boyle, which is a fantastic coworking hub, a very modern place. And I've also done them in Boyle Enterprise Centre as well, which is kind of a strange feather in Boyle’s cap to have two of a kind of coworking enterprise centres for people to be able to be able to utilise. So the great thing is with that is we get all the Shopie folk and together work together for today. It's just nice to have that bit of a connection and you just find out so much more about other people and you know, because number one, just what people understand as well, more importantly on the different teams that are working on as well. So it's actually a great day, you're learning, as much as it is a good bit of craic.

[00:05:12] Keith: So Shopify isn't just employing people, it's actually allowing people to get back to their roots, go back to their home, out of the cities. And it's also supporting, you know, jobs in, I suppose, in traditional places where, you know, there's, there's no corporates, isn't it a fantastic story. And hard to believe that an eCommerce platform can add so much value to a place without most people even realising it.

[00:05:34] Enda: To a whole country community because like it, just, even speaking on my own experience, like I'm 29 now at the moment, and people are of my age and maybe a bit younger and certainly a bit older who have had absolutely no choice but to move, to Galway and move to Dublin. And then from there, move to London or wherever they have to go after that in search of career progression and getting a good job. So when you are in a bigger populated area like in Nashville and off the price for a range and all that kind of stuff has gone up. Um, so meaning that yes, you're getting a better salary, but your overheads are way, way higher. So when you can kind of move home and move, move where you essentially want to base yourself far where you would always kind of take. Cause there's so many people my age who are into bigger cities and would love the facts are, I love the opportunity to be a, might not even necessarily be moving home but relatively forced to hope and to be actually able to, nor all afford to buy a house. You know, that's one of the biggest ones. The positive impact that Shopify has had on my life is phenomenal. And there's just so many other people out there who are just the same. Just to give a little bit of a plug for myself and the Directors for Support John Reardon are very, very involved with an organization called Grow Remote, which is all about trying to spread the word of remote work in rural Ireland, because to be 100% done is to do a very few things I am insanely passionate about. But remote work is actually wonderful because I have seen firsthand the impact that it can have on your life, but as a byproduct of that, just the impact it has on the people around you. So one sibling who was living at home or something like that, and if your parents or something had to go to an appointment in the hospital, for example, like that responsibility would have always fallen on that one sibling. But now because I'm back and I am able to work remote, I can lessen the load as well. You know what I mean? So, it's kind of those simple things that you actually wouldn't realize. You know what I mean? And it's only when you're in it and you're living it.

[00:07:22] Keith: Yeah, I'm with you 100% on that. I worked in the telecom space in the mobile space for years, and I wouldn't say a remote worker, but certainly a mobile worker since about 2004/2005 and I will second, second, every single thing that you said, and thanks for the insight. I think that when merchants are listening today, so when they, when they go on to support chat, I think it's nice for Shopify merchants to fully understand. We're at the gurus and where the product support people are based. It's a nice insight. So thanks for that. Moving on now to Kit and to yourself. So I've used Kit I think it's very, very powerful tool. I know that you're working hard behind the scenes on your, you guys are very focused on merchants using it more. For the merchants that are out there that actually aren't using Kit. Explain to us why case is described as effectively your first virtual employee.

[00:08:10] Enda: A very good question. Merchants make sales online as effectively and as easy as possible. It really, really is as simple as that. So the method way in which Kit does that case can help you do your Facebook ads, your Instagram ads, your email marketing, and your post-purchase thank you emails as well. Okay. So there are the four kind of parameters at the moment the main parameters where Kit is really kind of like doing its own thing. If that kind of makes sense. Now people are asking, right? So what is Kit? Is it a person? Am I emailing into someone to tell them to do all those things for me? So Kit is actually software. So when you install Kit onto your Shopify store, you're asked to give a method of contact. So the method of contact. is a forum for you to be able to contact Kit and then actually for Kit to contact you.

[00:08:59] But Kit is proactive. So what that means is that if Kit ever identifies a trend, so let's say for example, Kit could message me and say, I've seen a high interest in product X, so let's do an ad now to be able to materialise onto that demand at the moment. Okay. So the method of contact that you set up for Kit is entirely off yourself, what methods you've used.

[00:09:19] So at the moment, there's three forms of contacts you can use. You can use either Facebook messenger. SMS text message or our own app, which we've developed called Shopify Ping a little bit later on. But basically it's literally whatever method of contact that you want to use, whichever is simply works best for yourself. So when I say it's like it's a very, very easy conversation, just simply text hi to Kit as soon as you do that, Kit will get back to you with a list of options, and then naturally you're actually able to have a conversation with Kit to do exactly what you want to do. Okay. And it really is as simple as that. And the whole idea, as I said, it was to help merchants to make their first sale and to actually to grow their business after that, because it's kind of two fold, the benefit of Kit, because number one, if you do have experience, and let's just say it, we'll just use Facebook ads as an example. If you have experience to do Facebook ads yourself, when you see having a conversation with Kit is literally about five messages. That's all it will be. Like your conversation was very, very short. So in the space of five messages that you send to Kit, you can have a Facebook ad up and running and live. Kit will literally do it up.

[00:10:25] Keith: So Enda just on that. I mean, I've used it, I think it's great, but a couple of occasions, so we run a number of stores as well as building stores, and one of the logic behind that is, is that I don't think we can advise people on how to improve their own store if we don't fully understand how to run our own. So we have used Kit in 2 particular stores and on a couple of occasions Kit came back to us to say, this product is selling well. Would you like to run an ad? A couple of times I've kind of thought, you know, maybe it's incentivising me constantly to create ads. It's incentivising me through the app and through the message to say, would you like to run another ad? Have you ever got feedback from anybody? That may be, some people think that it's actually just trying to drive spend. Has anybody come back with that kind of feedback.

[00:11:12] Enda: That's a very, very fair question and a very fair point. So one of the things that I actually work on daily is feedback, and that is something that I have seen, to be 100% honest is like, you know how you can definitely see why people will be thinking that. But at the end of the day. Kit will never do anything until you give Kit to green light to do so. So when Kit is coming to you, as you say, like where does suggestion for not that Kit identifying a trend and saying Hi Enda, here's the heads up. So if you're want us to make this ad, I can go off and do it. All I need is you to say yes or no. So I can 100% see how people might think, Oh, is this some sort of kind of Facebook thing that are just really try to push us to go to get more cash in? Absolutely not. Because like, you know, as I said, Kit won't do anything without your green light. So like if Kit messages and says, look, let's make an ad, I’m seeing a trend at the moment and you don't want it. Then no ad will get made. It's as simple as that.

[00:12:06]Keith: In terms of the setup of Kit. So there's an app that you could download to your phone, you connect Kit through the app in store, and then you connect it to your Facebook business account. Can you just explain the simplicity and how easy it is to actually set up for merchants that are considering this?

[00:12:19] Enda: It's literally a 5 minute job. In the space you go and making a cup of tea, you can have a done, and it really, really is as simple as that because simply all you have to do, like as you said,is literally go to the Shopify app store, install Kit onto your store. As soon as you do that, you'll be brought into the onboarding for Kit. When you're being brought to the onboarding, first step will be to set up a method of contact. So at that stage you'll either set up Facebook messenger or SMS text message or Shopify Ping, as I said, whichever one you want to use. And literally after that, all you have to do is select a Facebook business page. That you want Kit connected to. So what that means is that when we'll do an ad for you, when you have Kit connect to a certain Facebook page. Then the ads will appear from that Facebook page, if that makes sense. And then there's a bit of a disclaimer like, you know, Kit will not be connected in any way to your personal Facebook page at all. It's just your business page. So naturally, as you are the admin on the business page, Kit would be able to do what it needs to do for you at that stage. So as soon as you have your Facebook page connected, you're ready to rock and roll. The next thing you have to set up or link up is your Facebook ad account. Which is again, a very, very simple process. And the whole reason behind the ad account is simply to have the account where the budget for your ads will be spent. I know when you're done, you're literally ready to rock and roll. Kit was there to import in your products straight away into its admin so it can know exactly what products you want to market when. And then it's as simple as that. You're ready to rock and roll. And then from there, we always recommend for everyone to set up the Facebook retargeting ads. So naturally they are ads. that retarget those that go to your store but don't purchase. And then the only thing we recommend for our merchants to set up is Instagram ads as well, so it just basically allow you to do ads on Instagram.

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[00:15:04] Keith: I mean, then if that's only the start, obviously you have a conversation with Kit. Kit will suggest an ad,, you decide whether it's yes or no . Kit will give you a preview of the ad and it is absolutely, I mean, you can effectively switch on and switch off Facebook ads from a train or from a bus using your mobile phone and it's great. There's also applications available that you can use through Kit. So if I wanted to use as an example, Bjorn Forsberg's customizable email templates or the Sufio accounting task app, how does that work then? Are you just having a conversation through Facebook messenger but with the application within case? Is that how it works?

[00:15:39] Enda: What we have, we have integrations with other apps, and basically what this means is that these other apps have built into our API. So for anyone who isn't that technically minded, I will put my hand up on that one as well. They took me long enough to figure out what an API was. A lot of different apps have built into our API, so they're able to build into Kit itself. So what that means is that if you have these integrations set up, and all you need for to have these integrations set up is to have the app in question. Installed in your store and Kit install as well. And what will happen then is that Kit will proactively message you with various kinds of updates about these apps so that Kit can just essentially help you manage these apps to make life a whole lot easier.

[00:16:21] Keith: [00:16:21] To utilise the apps through Kit the Merchant obviously has to have the app installed in the store and then they connect the app to Kit.Is that correct?

[00:16:30] Enda: Actually, we have worked very, very hard with the integrations. Actually extremely hard recently post a massive developer conference that was held in Canada, and the great thing is with that, the integrations were actually automatic. So for the heavy majority of apps integrated with Kit now. And how you can see which apps these are. All you have to do is login to your Kit dashboard and go into the skin sections. That's just where you need to go to be able to see what apps we integrate with. Most of these integrations are now automatic, so Kit itself will recognize that you have app X installed and Kit installed, and then from there the integration will be automatic.

[00:17:06] Keith: It's great. I would have expected that. So thanks for explaining for smaller merchants or new merchants, the whole app ecosystem, I mean Shopify is running an eCommerce store is a big undertaking, and running a successful and growing eCommerce store is even a bigger undertaking. So anybody that's considering Shopify, it's nice to know. Then the application integration between Kit and the store itself is basically autoplays. That's great. In terms of the trends, Enda it in terms of the future of Kit itself, and we'll talk about Apple Ping in, in, in a few minutes - for Kit is there a trend that is popular with small stores or big stores, or is there a vertical or is there a region in the world where it's popular? I mean, can you share anything or any particular insight into who's using it.

[00:17:50] Enda: [00:17:50] We see a very, very healthy mix of merchants who were just setting up literally have no sales have just literally set off from day one and install a Kit. We have a healthy amount of those. We also have a healthy amount of Shopify Plus merchants. So the Plus merchants are the upper echelon of Shopify users, and then everything in the middle.

[00:18:12] Keith: [That's why I asked the question because I've heard a number of people in the Plus sphere and a number of podcasts talk about Plus and Kit was in the same conversation. And to me it seems like there's a perception out there that, oh, a successful Plus store that's doing, you know, a million plus a year wouldn't even look at a product like Kit. We know quite a few Shopify plus users that are doing a million plus a year and don't have any staff. So it would seem to me that Kit could be absolutely perfect for their needs depending on what they're selling, depends what markets they're targeting.

[00:18:47] Enda: Absolutely because it's one of those things, in fairness, that the more data that is available to Kit. Like, you know, in generally speaking, the better it potentially could do for you. But saying that like, I'm not kind of like shooting down anyone who will be just standing up because like, it's not about genuinely like, you know, it's not about the quantity, it's about the quality of the data you have at your disposal. So this is kind of coming back to like, you know. How, how Kit interacts with Facebook and stuff like that. So naturally, one of the big things I like to start, Kit will look at kind of like the information that might be on your business page to be able to find the right people to be able to target. So if you have people who are following your business page and interacting with your page and various things such as that, who are genuinely into your page, there's a better chance that Kit will actually do well for you. But that's better quality or quality kind of data. And from there, you know what I mean? And that's just basically coming down to how a Kit can target.

[00:19:50] Because prior, before I joined Shopify, I was working on the marketing side of the world and in one case I was, I set up an online store and I found it insanely daunting. There's just so many things that you have to learn and have to get your head around, and in the most basic sense or kind of like, right what is a domain, right? Where do we get one in the ones, so on and so forth. So as a result of that, like you know, your, your so bogged down with the day to day of your business It's is very hard to get time to be able to figure out, right, how can I get this business? And that's where Kit can come in, especially for a merchant just starting off because one of our main aims, and goals especially for like, well, for every Kit is to help merchants make their first sale.

[00:20:32] Keith: That makes absolutely perfect sense. So, okay, so Enda onto Ping and Shopify Ping is the free iOS app for messaging. Okay. So these are load the app to your phone, you add the app to your store, and it gives you an opportunity then to, um, basically to interact with customers. So can you explain the link between Shopify Ping and Shopify Kit?

[00:20:56] Enda: [00:20:56] The link between Kit and Shopify Ping is. Very deep, we'll put it that we're family. So basically like, you know,Kit was always had like, you know, different methods of contact to be able to communicate. And the biggest issue with that was that we were all kind of like reliant on third parties to an extent. So like if you're using SMS for example, then you're kind of reliant on the mobile carrier of the phone at the time. And if you're using Facebook messenger and actually reliant on Facebook. So we kind of taught, right, okay. Think about a method of contact here that we will be able to control. Do we have control over that? Like more importantly, if it goes down or if there's an issue where we can fix it or more. And then aside from that as well, if there's more features that merchants want, we can easily build it. You know what I mean? So like naturally when you're relying on a third party, you were kind of hindered to an extent. Definitely. Which weren't good in terms of that. So Shopify Ping was developed to be another method of contact for Kit. So you simply install Shopify Ping, and then from there you're able to instantly use it to communicate with Kit directly within Shopify Ping, but from there it was noted and seen that right, are we missing a beat here? I think we can make this bigger. So Shopify Ping has developed now into this very open, very, very open network. And it's almost like it's the same with Kit in general, which is skills, is that it is open to this new, bigger network that Shopify Ping will now be an area for you to be able to communicate with Kit. But they also have to communicate directly with your customers via Facebook messenger sales channel, and also the newly launched Apple business chat. So the aim for Shopify Ping was to be able to localise all of your communications and all of your interactions between your business interactions and your customer interactions in one handy location. So you're not bouncing between a hundred different apps on your phone or on your computer that you just have this one centralised location, but you can do it all.

[00:23:03] Keith: So as a store owner, then does a store owner open the Ping app. Or the Kit app or the Facebook app to take in all of those messages. So does Ping send those third party customer messages back through Facebook. Is that how it works?

[00:23:18] Enda: Correct. Yeah. So if all you have to do is literally open up Shopify Ping, you will see a message. You will actually see all your Kit messages. They're number one. But if you have the Facebook sales channels set up and installed on your store, you will see any messages or interacts with that you've had with your customers through the Facebook messenger sales channel. So you open up Ping, you go into your customer conversation and it's all in the one location. You would reply to them. If I use your merchants, you can send them on links directly from within the app. Two products. You can create draft orders from within the app. You're fairly unlimited to the kind of conversations and interactions that you have within Ping.

[00:23:56] Keith: And is the uptake on Ping, do people understand that the two of them kind of work hand in hand or I suppose, is that a process at the moment it's in progress?

[00:24:08] Enda: It's kind of one of those things. Going back to the famous thing with any online business. Is that, you know, when you launch something, some people would get it and understand it straight away and then others mightn’t, and you have to hold their hands a little bit more. So that's what, that's what we're experiencing now. But the feedback on users on Shopify Ping, it's so positive. You know what I mean? And as various different kinds of sales channels and apps are able to build into Ping into Shopify Ping, then more and more merchants will see the benefit of using just having that one centralized location to be able to be able to contact, and interact with their customers.

[00:24:46] Keith: Enda after his year's unite conference, there was a pretty serious announcement made in terms of Apple business chat and the link to Ping. And Michael Perry has done a number of podcast interviews and he was the original founder of Kit, and he was, he announced the latest changes. So some people are calling the integration of Apple business chat with Ping is, the future of Ecommerce. So we've discussed Kit, we’ve discussed Ping. So now what's, what's the latest development on what is Apple business chat?

[00:25:16] Enda: So Apple business chat, it’s simply a chat functionality, but it's an incredibly smart and clever chat functionality to give you details. So Apple Business chat it may come as no shock is only available to those on Apple. Okay. But to be more precise, if a customer is going on to a Shopify store. Going onto that Shopify store on any sort of Apple devices, so be it a macbook, a macbook air or whatnot, an iPhone and iPad. Anything that is Apple. Okay. As soon as a customer goes onto that website, a little chat bubble will appear and that chat bubble, will allow for the customers to be able to interact directly with the merchant. So naturally, any questions about any products or whatever the case may be. So the great thing is the merchants with then get that message into their Shopify Ping and from Ping up to interact directly with the merchant. There again, the same story. They're able to send on links directly to the products. They're able to create draft orders and various kinds of things like that, be able to actually pay within the conversation using Apple pay as well. So within the entire conversation, you can have a whole transaction takes place. So it's an incredibly powerful, very incredibly, incredibly powerful tool. So the differentiation that as it is like naturally enough Apple business chat, the differentiation is that if anyone was to go onto a Shopify store with an Android phone or a PC or anything else that is essentially not Apple then that Apple business chat window or a chat bubble will not appear on the website for that customer. So it's primarily those who are using iPhones and stuff like that. So our kind of like any Apple products, should I say, but it is a massive, massive launch. Like I've used it myself. I've actually had an interaction with a customer on my own store with this during the week. And I literally, in the case of 10 minutes, I had made a sale, but more importantly was actually a bespoke sale. A merchant came to me for a very particular kind of product that I didn't have, and I was able to go off and create the product for them. And then from there it was job done. So in 10 minutes, well, the number one that i made a sale more importantly I had a new product on my store that I didn't think people might want but clearly had some market research there. So that's just kind of shows how powerful it is. Very, very, very useful.

[00:27:42] Keith: So Enda the customer, interacted with you through Apple business chat. Did you create an order? How exactly would something like that work.

[00:27:52] Enda: So very, very simply, all I did, like as I said, that that a customer wanted to have a bespoke product. So I went into my Shopify store. I made the product, and the update and communication between your Shopify store and Apple business chat is instantaneous. So what I mean by that is that I literally made the product, the product, had gone live on my store. I went straight into my Apple business chat conversation. Within Shopify Ping. And as soon as you do that, you are given a full list of your entire inventory. So I went through how to search for the product. It was there straight away ready and literally clicked on the product. And you're given the option to share the product in this product page, are going to give them the option to create a draft order. So I literally created the draft order. So when the customer clicked on that, they were brought directly to the checkout. And from there, they just made the purchase and that was job done.

[00:28:46] Keith: Wow. Pretty powerful stuff, isn't it?

[00:28:48] Enda: It's insanely powerful, but one of the more important things about it, what I kind of think is vastly important is that like the great thing with Shopify and with Kit in general, what we really try and do and push forward is that people with Shopify stores, the money that people make on their Shopify store makes a massive difference to their life. And where I'm going with this is. That when you have these opportunities to literally be, have a one to one interaction or one-to-one conversation where the customer is assured that that customer, that you are a personality, that that you are a person behind this website, you're not some sort of massive conglomerates are a massive group or anything such as that you're literally a person maybe doing your side hustle in the evening. You know, or something like that. You're trying to pay off your car loan and you're trying to pay off your mortgage or even for yourself, trying to save for a house, you know, like that. Doing it this way, it's kind of showing and it's coming down to marketing as well. It's giving your brand of voice. It's allowing you to be your voice of your brand, which is incredibly, incredibly important. It's kind of one of those things as well. You can obviously see the straight head on benefits of it, or more importantly is the secondary benefits of that. As I said, giving your brand voice. and giving it your voice, more importantly.

[00:30:03] Keith: Yeah. Look, I, I second everything that you said, you know, and, and the, I suppose the beauty about it is as well, is that you're dealing with people that are all over the world, that there's no barriers. Once somebody has internet access or mobile access, you can have a conversation with, with virtually anybody. Enda it's been an absolute pleasure talking to you today. Thank you very, very much for your time. And what we'll do is we will keep an eye on the remote working scene in the West of Ireland and who knows? You might join us again at some point. Maybe just discuss that topic on its own.

[00:30:30] Enda: Absolutely. I'd love to. Thanks very much for having me and inviting me on. So it was a pleasure to work with your good selves so thank you very much.

[00:30:36] Keith: Perfect. Enda thanks very much. And take care.

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